Episode 08 - Access & Understanding

Sheriff Jay Armbrister sits down with community outreach coordinator Morgan Haney and recent Citizens Academy graduates Hannah Bolton (founder, Cardinal Housing Network) and defense attorney Matthew Fredrick to explore how the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office opens its doors to the public. 

They break down what happens over the seven-week, nine-session DGSO Citizens Academy — from reentry simulations and jail tours to dispatch, firearms and traffic-stop scenarios — and how experiential learning changes perceptions of law enforcement.

Transcript

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Jay Armbrister: 0:10

There's very few things that are as selfless as coming into law enforcement, into the corrections, coming to a sheriff's office in this day and age,

Dalton Welsh: 0:21

from the heart of the country in Douglas County, Kansas, this is view from 100 a behind the scenes look at law enforcement community and the stories that shape our county.

Jay Armbrister: 0:31

It's an honor and a privilege to serve not just the community, but my community. I mean, I was born and raised here,

Dalton Welsh: 0:37

hosted by your sheriff, Jay armrester, bringing you insights from the badge and beyond.

Jay Armbrister: 0:48

All right. Thank you, everybody. Welcome. Welcome back to episode number eight, and this one is a big one. It's a good one, but it's well timed because we have a big event coming up, an annual event that we have have every year. So I've got some guests here to help me, one that you'll you'll recognize from our triggering episode a couple months ago about suicide, but Morgan's back to help us explain. But what we're going to talk about today is the Citizens Academy and this to kind of go historically, go kind of backwards and work forwards. Sheriff Kenny McGovern had the idea to do this. Now, this had happened for in many different places, under many different roofs, but his vision was to have a more hands on, a more kind of enveloping approach, and we just basically fling the doors open allow citizens to come in, root around, in our in our in the darkest corners of our agency, and learn from us what it is to do the work we do, but also on how to be a good steward of this information, but also how to go out into the to the community and and kind of I'm not saying to advocate, because we don't always deserve advocation, but to be a a voice of reason. When people are like, Why the f does the sheriff's office, or does law enforcement, or does the jail do this? You can be like, Hey, I actually learned about this when I did the Citizens Academy. And here's what goes on. We're not saying it's right, but here's how it works. So, so today we're going to talk about the Citizens Academy and what we do, why we do it, how we do it. But also, I've got several guests here to that. They're going to introduce themselves shortly, but we're going to start right over here with you again. Me, hi. So, so tell us again. Remind folks, the nine viewers who watch our podcast, who you are, what you do in your day job, but talk about the what, the where, the why, the how of the Citizens Academy, and we'll just kind of play it

Morgan Haney: 2:52

from there. Nice. So I'm Morgan Haney. I do community outreach for the Douglas County Sheriff's Office, and what I do is I'm the person that runs Citizens Academy, and so it is a seven week nine session event where we really let you guys come in as you two remember, like, behind the scenes of exactly what the Douglas County Sheriff's Office does and every aspect of it. So I was making a list of, you know, what did you guys learn, and all those kinds of things, and I realized there's really nothing you guys don't learn of our like, you know, a person in every part of our agency, and like, whatever role they're in. And so that's really fun. So it's corrections, patrol, investigations, court, security, reentry, dispatch. I know I'm missing a ton, and you get to come and do everything that they get to do. So you get to learn how to fingerprint and fingerprint dust, and you learn how to shoot guns and drive cars and do car stops. You know what it's like when we have to call the canine out and they have to try to find some drugs. You guys all got to witness all of that happen real time.

Jay Armbrister: 3:55

Yeah, that too. Yeah. And so, I mean, you're right. The term corrections division is just, it's, it's very simple in that it's the jail, but it's so much more than that, in that it's reentry, it's a full, fully operational, 24/7 medical facility. It's inpatient and outpatient treatment at times. It's, it's so much more than that. But that's, that's absolutely correct, is that we invite, oh, what do we take? 16 people, up to 16?

Morgan Haney: 4:26

No, we take up to 23 so 15 to 23 our area,

Jay Armbrister: 4:31

I was, I was right on, right now, I told you, I told you, so. So we take upwards of 23 people. But that's, that's something that we can go ahead and cover now is the application process. We have had people who have been charged with felonies. We have people who have been convicted of felonies. We have people who are unapologetically not police, happy, I guess, if that's such a term or law enforcement. Yeah, and we, we open our doors to almost anybody. We have had to turn some folks away, but that's, you know, that's just the nature of the beast. But for the most part, we've had some amazing experiences with people who wouldn't have normally been allowed into a program like this and and that's what I think makes it so great, not just that we get to meet and experience this, this group of people who want to learn, but also that they can learn from us and see what it is we do, but also the feedback that they can bring. So I always like to tell this story, and I'll tell it quickly. I don't remember which murder of a young black man. It was several years ago by law enforcement, but a good friend of mine, that I grew up with, played baseball with, was very vocal on social media about police murdering this young man. And it may have been George Floyd, I'm not certain, but it was, it was something very similar. And in private conversations with him, I was like, Look, man, I'm asking you to come in and take our city, be a part of our Citizens Academy. And that way, when you come out of it, you can help us understand what we need to know, give us you can see it from the inside and and then you can understand it. And even if you're still pissed, you're going to have a lot more credibility so to speak that that you understand what it is we do and why we do it, and how we do it, and he took me up on it, and it was amazing for both him and I. But at the end of it, he was he was so great. He's like, Jay, here's what I've learned. You guys need help. You need help doing background checks. You need help with mental health, and you need resources for people who you are sending out on the streets. We can talk all day about Derek Chauvin, who murdered George Floyd. Was he having just a bad day, or was he having a mental health crisis that was gone had gone undetected for years? I don't know. No none of us know that. But what I do know is that we have a duty to send the very best people in the very best shape out to handle the the most dangerous work that our society can can bring to us. So that's that was something he and I both took away from that. I found it just absolutely amazing how he could, he could go through all of this and still come back and be like, You know what I was. I misunderstood some things, but here's what you do need to do, and it was great suggestions. And that's something we've actually worked we've we've actually shown, in my opinion, great strides towards so I say that only to kind of reiterate the fact that this is not about us showing teaching and and and turning people in our favor. It's about showing people what we do and then having them say. But why do you do it that way? Or have you thought about this? And we may say, we've never heard of that. That's a great idea. Or here's why we can't do that. You know, that's illegal. We, here's the law that says we can't do that. No, we can't just shoot somebody in the knee. You know, that's, that's a lot of the our jail is not full of marijuana users and marijuana dispensers. I mean, like it's, there's reality, there's there's narratives, and then there's reality. So it's, really, it's a perfect place to kind of bring that to. So enough of me standing here and talking. We're sitting and talking about this. Let's meet, meet our two guests. I'll start with Hannah and and then so tell us about who you are in your day job. And I mean, I already know we are quite well aware, but tell the folks. But also, why did you want to get in the Citizens Academy? What you know, what was your biggest was your biggest takeaway, what was your biggest surprise? You know, what did you learn? But also, where was there anywhere that you saw a need for change or a need for more understanding from our on our part? So, so yeah, you go. Thank you so much for having me.

Hannah Bolton: 8:37

Absolutely is, seriously, one of the best crews. We became kind of family during our Citizens Academy. So and how long ago did you guys go through it? We just completed Citizens Academy this past spring, okay? And it was a really big commitment for somebody who goes to bed typically, like 8pm Yeah, because it's an evening thing, but you stay up late. Rough life I lead, but my name is Hannah Bolton. I am the founder and program director of Cardinal Housing Network. This is a new nonprofit here in Douglas County. I got into transitional housing for women through this program after a very long stint of alcohol addiction that my brother faced throughout his 20s. My brother passed away in January. It's been five years. The five year anniversary was just last week, but he really struggled to find support in terms of housing after he you know, we would find different solutions for him. He wasn't involved much with law enforcement, which I do find very interesting now that I'm in this work, but we really struggled to find him a place to live after he would go to inpatient treatment, after he would go to LMH. This was before the TRC had opened. And what I gathered, and one of the things that I think a lot of us do when we're in these crisis. Situations is we're really looking for solutions, and we kind of took an assessment as a family of what is available here in town, and it's not a lot. I would say for men too, it's almost double the amount of beds available for than for women. There's only 15 beds currently available for moms with kids, and that's including the kids. It's not just 15 moms, it's 15 moms and kids. And so after my brother had passed away, was in a really interesting situation where I was unemployed. I left my job after five years, a job that I really loved, doing major gift fundraising for KU and kind of found myself in a position where I had kind of given up all of this in an attempt to try something new, and every road kept leading me back to Douglas County. I really wanted to move to San Diego. To be honest, it's really windy outside today and cold, and so I was like, that would have been nice. But, you know, I have been, you know, working on this program almost since, I guess it's been almost 2022 so three years the organization was founded in 2024 our first house opened in 2025 and we actually exclusively take folks that are incarcerated in the Douglas County Jail. So it's folks that are typically high acuity to services here in town, folks that are regularly finding themselves in Douglas County Jail. And there's a lot of ways you can find yourself in jail too. It doesn't have to be much, but I will say, as those start compounding your your ability to, you know, rebuild is a lot harder, and so we really kind of wanted to focus on this, this house that we started, it opened in late May of 2025 but focusing on the folks that really don't have a lot of other options, folks with felonies, folks that don't have any money to pay any rent. That is something that the Douglas County Sheriff's Office provides is 30 days of their rent to get them to all of their medical appointments. We have a staff of just two for us, but our team consists primarily of folks from the reentry team at the jail, and they are incredible. I know, yeah, no, honestly, like, and I remember reaching out to Carrie way back when this program started. Carrie nice, who's the director, and kind of talking to her about this program, and she's like, it's, it's so needed here. And so, you know, I've noticed that with all of this unfolding, that the sheriff's office has been like, the one true partner in terms of whatever you need, we will provide. So I just want to acknowledge too, like, I don't think that that happens often. I think a lot of times think people think, oh, once they're they're released, then that is someone else's problem. That is not the case here in Douglas County, which I think is incredible.

Jay Armbrister: 13:02

So well, I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in here. I'm gonna clarify a few things, but I'm also gonna say thanks, but you conceived, built and opened a facility that nobody else would or had, and you did, are currently doing work other believed to be impossible. It is my understanding, we have a great partner in artists helping the homeless, who created a blueprint for boys only. And I'm sure that's been helpful, at least having them as peers. But even they were like females, are very difficult. It's a very difficult and so therefore we had nothing for these ladies, especially if they had children or felonies or, you know, high severe and persistent mental illness. And so you have stepped into an open spot in this community, and have been filling that role while also facing red tape and bureaucracy, as as you and I know through tax districts and historical buildings and whatnot, but, but so I just don't, I love that you're selling yourself, but you're selling yourself short in that the work you've done is amazing, but also we know that it's still on the build, because we're all still learning, but we're glad to be a partner, and I'm gonna and I appreciate you saying that too about the sheriff's office being a partner in that most people do agree that once they leave our jail, they're not our problem anymore. And I would say it's been going up on 15 years now that Sheriff McGovern again had this idea, it was a national push, but he built a reentry program, because we were realizing that these people were just coming right back to the jail. You send somebody out into the same environment with the same people that they got arrested in and expect something different. I'm pretty sure Einstein had a quote about that. You know, it's just ridiculous. And so we decided if we could somehow use the time in jail, I. To get them set up for more successful opportunities. We found that our jail population dropped at a cost to the taxpayers, because it costs a lot of money to house somebody in jail. But also, I have to give credit to this community in this county for funding the sheriff's office to do this work, because there's a lot of places to be like, No, once that person's out of jail, they don't deserve tax money. You know, they don't deserve our money. And we, we don't see it that way in this community. And that's where, you know, for as much complaining as I do about Lawrence not being able to get out of Lawrence's way, sometimes we do put our money where our mouth is when it comes to that. And so, so that's, that's something that I always try to say, is that I have to give credit where credit where credit is due. It's not the sheriff's office alone doing this, not Cardinal house doing it alone. It is kind of a communal effort. But so yes, you were saying something less, less awesome than it actually is. So go ahead. Carry on.

Hannah Bolton: 15:54

So a big reason why I applied for Citizens Academy, why was recommended from Commissioner Dorsey. He said it was an incredible opportunity that he had the year prior. But the biggest thing was, is, again, I mentioned I hadn't had a lot of interactions with law enforcement. It is kind of obscure that we were able to skate by almost 10 years in active addiction with really only, I mean, there was very minimal interaction. So that was something that I really wanted to put myself in the shoes of some of the women that were going through this. I don't there's still language, language and lingo. I don't understand that there's thrown around. And I'm like, I can we stop? I don't know exactly what we're talking about, but and then there's the whole legal process, like, the second that they get there. I mean, that's a real time where they're like, I have court, I've got things I've got to meet. And so it was really important to me that I had a better understanding of how the sheriff's office was interacting with the women. I had major concerns too about the location of the house, because it is right across from the courthouse. There's a lot of sheriff's cars sitting out front. And I was like, Is this going to

Jay Armbrister: 17:05

be triggering? I watch you right out my window, and my office is very scary. Yeah.

Hannah Bolton: 17:09

I didn't know your office there, yeah. So, you know, it's one of those things where I was like, this is important to me. And I did go into this with some perceptions of aggressive mentality, I thought in terms of all cops. And I'll say that that is like, I grew up in a town of 300 we had one police officer, I think, for the whole county, and it was like he was our friend, you know, like, and so, you know, when you start kind of figuring out how all of these things are, you know how all of it works. It really does put into perspective like this is a an organization that is providing care for the community rather than punishment and severe. I don't know what exactly the term I'm looking for is, but it is all done for the greater good, which is exactly how Transitional Housing Works too, like you're really trying to build a system that works for everyone, but with the greater good in mind. So I got more than I ever thought I could out of it. I mean, I learned so much about just the day in and day out. I think the main takeaway that I had was you all train a lot, and I am so impressed with how thoughtful and consistent you are with training, and how open everyone was to training us to those things. So I don't want to take up too much more time. It's all you, yeah? All right. Me, yeah.

Matthew Fredrick: 18:42

My name is Matthew Fredrick. I'm a I do criminal defense here, both appointed work and retained work. I also do some civil plaintiffs litigation I can speak to just to touch on Hannah's work. I was just at a hearing the other day, actually, and I saw an individual who was receiving services at one of the cardinal house I mean, phenomenal outcome in terms of what I heard, I go down to the courthouse because I was joking. It's like casinos. They're like pumping extra oxygen in the air down there. So I just like to go down there and take in the ambiance and the law, and I just like to bask in it. But I got to hear that. And so I can firsthand attest to I agree with Sheriff farmbrister. You undersold yourself. I can firsthand a test to the results of your work. I'm not as cool as Hannah. I can tell you that I do defense work. Just got on the appointed attorney panel because I wanted to get in the courtroom. That's my favorite part of being a lawyer. The other parts of being a lawyer, I would not comment on, they're not as great, right? Say, but being in courtroom, and then I got to work with people and really see kind of the difference that you can make, and really see how impactful some of these situations are, and I could do things, I mean, they were just my clients were so appreciative. And I was like, wow, this is my job. I mean, I'm very happy to see that this has, yeah. Helped you in this way. And there's a paper that I found that talks about the impact of misdemeanors specifically, because I think in some ways, you know, felonies are the big one, but misdemeanors, there's kind of a snowball effect that can happen where there's the someone's first misdemeanor, for example, that can be kind of a point where it's either going down path A or path B. And path A and B are very different, sure. And if you know with the wrong things throughout the process, because the sheriff's office might be part of the is part of the process different from Lawrence Police Department, right? Because somebody is going to go to the jail, probably more likely than not, and so then they're going to interact with the Sheriff's Department. They're going to interact with all of the services that you guys talked about. And so that's kind of where I work. And I got specifically introduced to the citizen Citizens Academy because deputy cheek at the courthouse, phenomenal deputy. We have the best deputies. This is the best sheriff's department in the state of Kansas. And I would argue in the country that objectively, it is my opinion that it's the best in the country and and if you look at the resources available, there are larger counties in Kansas. There are counties with more money in Kansas, there are not counties that are doing the same things, that are doing them at the same level, with the same care in them, and actually wanting to see results. Yeah, in the state of Kansas. And I will go to the mat on so I'll go with your department that wants to come and talk to me about that. I'm happy.

Jay Armbrister: 21:40

It's funny. You say that, because every, every year, and several times a year, I go and meet with the Kansas Sheriff's Association, which I'm a proud member of, but it's there's 105 counties. There's 104 sheriffs, because Manhattan is weird, but they have, they have a consolidated government. They don't have a sheriff 104 sheriffs. And it's funny, because I'll go to these and one sheriff in particular, he was like, Hey, how are things up and woke Lawrence, you know? And I'm just like, hey, I'm almost fully staffed. How are you, holy crap. How did you guys do that? How'd you and it's funny, because they like to bag on Lawrence, and they like to say how, you know, we're just backwards and hard to work with, and we're different. But then in the same sentence. They always like to tell me their favorite place to eat in Lawrence. And they want to know how it is, did you get that? How did you get that re entry thing off the ground? You know, how are you doing, you know, competency restoration in your jail. How is that working out for you? So they watch, they see what we do, and they accuse us of having all this money. Well, we don't we? I mean, you're absolutely right. There are counties that have two or three more digits ahead of our budget, but our community, community has agreed to fund the things that we believe in, and that is these resources, as opposed to more bars, more guards, more walls. It's how do we keep people out of jail? And I appreciate you saying that, and I totally agree, but I think that even our own community loses sight of how, how hard we work to be different and to do things differently. But also, when you stay in the same little ecosystem, and you don't have a stick by which to measure anymore, you feel like maybe we're stagnant, or we're not doing something that we should be doing. But then you step outside of it, you realize we are doing things way, way above, beyond and ahead. So thank you.

Matthew Fredrick: 23:26

That includes specialty courts, a drug court, exactly a behavioral health court, now a veteran court, okay? And then, and that's everybody down the courthouse, everybody in the sheriff's department, phenomenal. I haven't interacted with Lawrence Police Department as much? Yeah, I have no reason to think anything other right than the case. I mean, I'm just partial to the sheriff's department, having gone through this academy so, but I think it's important, because this law enforcement is a necessary part of our society. I'm saying that as somebody who defends people, right, who goes up to prosecutors and says, So are we dismissing this case that's been brought unjustly against my client who did nothing wrong, and this is all big misunderstanding regularly. You can ask all the prosecutors, they will confirm that. And and so practically, how did I get into the Citizens Academy? One of the deputies, Deputy Chief, I believe, fairly certain, mentioned it to me, and I was in, I mean, just to get to do it, to learn about it. And frankly, I'm going to stand up, I might be cross examining a deputy at some point in time, and I might say, hey, deputy, I went to the assistant's Academy. I learned that this is how you're supposed to do it, and you didn't do it that, right? Yeah. And don't you think that these fine people sitting over here might have some doubts about the conclusion, and they knew that going in, and you were open to it, it was not, it was it's another layer of accountability, exactly, and that's how I view my role. Yeah, if you got somebody, you got somebody. I mean, there are laws those get enforced. My job is to make sure that people's rights are protected, that if it's not done correctly, that that that they. Have somebody to advocate for them, but there's another side of that, and I wanted to understand the other side of that process for a number of reasons, reasons that I could take way too long to talk about, just because pick a topic. And I mean, I, as I said, my excitement about this is nearly unconditional. You could ask Morgan. I mean, I just, I everything that we got to do. I would call it like the cliff notes of what the sheriff's department does. But that kind of undersells it, because it's actually we got to do more than that. I mean, seven weeks, nine sessions, multi hour sessions, where we went through, we went to the jail, another place I like going great, chilly. I want to make sure that we put that on the record, okay? And I understand that that's unique in terms of how the jail lot. I mean, there are many things about the county.

Jay Armbrister: 25:48

I don't know how many counties still have an active, fully operational, working kitchen in their jails. Most everybody is a contract where they they every two or three days, you get a pallet delivered with individual meals at you. They heat on trays, they rip a lid off of and they hand through the through the bean hole, you know. So we're and I'll be, I'll admit that my, one of the first people that contacted me when I got sworn in, was that big company saying, hey, why don't you give us a chance to come in and talk to you? And I said, No, thanks. Because not only would it take jobs away. We hire people. It takes work away from our inmates who have the opportunity to go in and work and get either time or fines taken off of there. And also, we find that those folks who have a job have something to lose. They also have something to look forward to, and they want, they want that job. And so it's, it's a win, win for everybody. So thank you. Yeah, no, it's, it's, again, another one of those weird things that Lawrence does is, you know, try to do what's right by the people.

Matthew Fredrick: 26:49

And this is coming from somebody. I have referred to Lawrence as the California of Kansas. Oh, in an opening

Jay Armbrister: 26:55

statement, I would say, take it a step further. We're the Berkeley of the Midwest.

Matthew Fredrick: 27:00

I'm not geographically, but I'll take we're the Austin, yeah, yeah, the weirdo, yeah, right. Or weird, mean, you know, and I live here, so I'm working, or weird, just right? So that's, that's how I got into Systems Academy. It was awesome, phenomenal experience. Everybody I got to work with, learn from everybody that I got to do it with as also going through the Citizens Academy. I mean, it was just a great experience. I think anybody and everybody should apply and do it and make it difficult for you guys to choose those 16 or 15 to 23 individuals to do it.

Jay Armbrister: 27:35

Same thing, yeah, well, and I would argue too, is that we don't want 16 to 23 cheerleaders. We'll take them all day long, don't get me wrong, but we want people who want to come in and learn and have critical thinking skills and ask the right questions and hold our feet to the fire if we're not doing something right or doing something that they don't understand or they don't think is right, and then we can try to explain it. We this is not about us building an army of advocates to go out and say the sheriff's office is doing great work. It's about us having an opportunity to turn 16 people into people that want to do that and and I think, I think that that gets lost too, is like that we handpick people that are only going to leave here seeing our tune, and that's just simply not the case. I mean, I'm sure there's people that have graduated out of this Citizens Academy that still believe that we should be doing things differently, and they have every right to believe that. But I don't want to exclude somebody just because, you know, they may feel that way. So now, what was, what were kind of some of the high points for the two of you? What was, what were the what was something you just flat enjoyed, and what was something that just really took you off, or kind of caught you was like, I had no idea, or that's that was a surprise. I'll start with you.

Hannah Bolton: 28:45

I think I really enjoyed the way that it was set up. By the time that we got to more of the like, actual field work, we were all pretty much in community. You had become our full time camp counselor. Like, we were really, like, in a position where it was enjoyable, but also educational. But the way that it starts first evening was being addressed by you to, kind of to talk about, you know, how this all kind of is set up. But it was so thoughtful. Everywhere we go the first day though, you all put on a reentry simulation. And I just want to advocate here too, how important that training is to anybody. And I'll tell you a little bit about a reentry simulation. Basically, it's set up in a room the reentry team provides some support, artists helping the homeless. There's some other volunteers, but basically, you're kind of given a card at the first stop, and you're like, Okay, here's all of the things that I need to know. I'm being released from jail. I have $6 to my name. I have a disability that requires you know I have some mobility issues, and you're kind. Given this like this package of this persona, and you need to navigate what it looks like for the first 30 days after releasing from jail, and you have to go to all these different places with the bus pass that you might not have money to buy. Luckily, in Lawrence, they're free, but it basically shows you how difficult it is to reintegrate into the community if you do not have resources, like money, a place to live, supportive lawyers. You know, whatever it is, your barriers are so high, and the reality is a lot of people fail at the end of that reentry simulation, there's like four corners. One of them is like, you're in an apartment. The other ones, you're in jail. Other ones, you're in shelter, the shelter, or, you know, maybe homeless, whatever it looks like. And by the end of it, almost everyone was back in jail because they violated something because they couldn't get to where they needed to go on time. They missed a court date because they don't have an active phone, whatever it looks like. And throughout the whole Citizens Academy, we all kept coming back to that, that being such a transformative thing. And I remember talking to some folks that were like, I want to do that with my church group, because I think people will better understand how this all works. Sure. So that, to me, was, like, the most critical part that was the second time I'd done it, the first time I'd done it, I literally couldn't stop thinking about it for like, months on end. I was like, that was traumatic, but also just experiential learning. That's how you learn things. I would say that being the core piece that I really loved, the other part I really loved was going into dispatch,

Matthew Fredrick: 31:51

also monitor setup.

Hannah Bolton: 31:55

You walk into this space and there's like, how many eight monitor, eight or nine monitors? And it is a lot. There's a lot of it's dimly lit, but there's like, lights everywhere, and everyone

Jay Armbrister: 32:05

there talking

Hannah Bolton: 32:06

is so calm, cool, collected, and they're just one of the women was telling me, telling me that she's like, this is the best job I've ever had, and because she gets to assist people. And I was like, I would have never guessed dispatch look like that ever like

Matthew Fredrick: 32:21

apply to be a dispatcher? Yeah?

Jay Armbrister: 32:23

Me, no, yeah. Just know you're talking to my mother when you look at the because she's one of the few people.

Hannah Bolton: 32:34

But yeah, I mean that there is no better way to learn than through experiential learning. I truly believe, like, the best way to do it is just to try it, and you will it will stick with you. And I think that's just about everything about the Citizens Academy. It's all just stuck with me. And that is very indicative of just how thoughtful the process was put together, how great the group was. I mean, we were all, like, excited to see each other, and,

Matthew Fredrick: 33:05

you know, I was pumped every time, the

Hannah Bolton: 33:07

most pumped, yeah, but yeah. I just think it's, it's a really special thing, but there's nothing like you can't read a book and learn any of this. You've got to do it. Yeah, your

Matthew Fredrick: 33:17

cortisol levels will recover from you. Said, I think most people fail. I don't know that anybody succeeded, and I don't know that it was like getting your hair lit on fire, and then you have to go do 10 different tasks. Yeah, and one of them is a crossword. I graduated law school. I have a law license. You could not have paid me enough money I couldn't find words like I couldn't find words on the crossword, because that's what stress does to you. And you can't, you can hear that, and you can read that, and you can understand kind of the semantic meaning of that, but until you're sitting there with an expo marker trying to find the second word in the crossword, and you can't, you don't really know what it feels like, and until you hand some money to a seemingly nice probation officer that then asks where your bus ticket is and does or you give them your bus ticket, and then they ask where something else that you need is and you go, Oh, can I have my bus ticket back? And they say, oh, no, you cannot. And it turns out maybe they're not the nicest, and we have great po officers, okay, this is a simulation, everybody, but that was quite an experience, and you just kind of don't learn those things. And I got just absolutely fleeced at a pawn shop. Unbelievable, right? And, yeah, my grievance is I didn't have time to submit a grievance because I couldn't even get the crossword

Morgan Haney: 34:54

puzzle doing the crossword puzzle, and you were like, saying that we had, like, faked it. It wasn't a real crossword puzzle. So they were arguing with us. We're like, you're running out of time, man. I'm like, find the word.

Matthew Fredrick: 35:04

I was expressing my objection. It was irrelevant to kind of be in that position, because somebody, I mean, as a lawyer, right? You're automatically going to end up you might not understand the position. And most people, I always describe this, most people don't want to think about what it's like being in the position that you're in the criminal justice system. By the time you're in the position that you're dealing with the criminal justice system, the water's so high up to your neck, you're not thinking about how you can do anything with it, right? You're just trying to make it through and get out of it. Yeah? And so it's something where, unless the people who are a part of it, are actively swimming upstream to work to how can we improve this? How can we do things? How can we make people aware of this? It's just not something that improves. And that's, I mean, that's what's happening here, and that's kind of what I took away from the Citizens Academy, that reentry simulation, the active shooter simulation, the car stop simulation. I mean, I asked for a more aggressive, rowdier car stop. They roll these highly tinted windows down. I think somebody needs follow up with whoever the owner of that vehicle is. We won't name any names.

Jay Armbrister: 36:14

I just I just know there's a carve out in the statute for law enforcement vehicles.

Matthew Fredrick: 36:17

Well, we say that they were law enforcement, right? So I'm not going to incriminate anybody, but, but I know the window rolls down, and somebody's got their phone up and the lights on, and they're recording me and some very I mean, it was good music, but it was very loud. Was was bumping. There's four people in the car. I've been on that car, stop in the backseat. I couldn't even look in the back seat, because, like, you're taking in all these sensory experiences. That is not a situation I envy. And I don't know that you can know what that's like until you go through it and you could say, well, it's been 30 seconds. I haven't even looked in the back. There's two people in the backseat. I haven't even looked in the backseat. So like that could be a problem in a

Jay Armbrister: 37:01

real you know, in the back of your mind, you know, we're not there to hurt you, but your mind all of a sudden shuts off that part. And you like, people feel real stress at that moment like, holy shit, I might be in trouble here.

Matthew Fredrick: 37:13

That's exactly right. And so for me, you know, as somebody who I watch a lot of body cam footage, I review a lot of evidence. You know, axon, I get all that shared with me. I review that I now, when I go in and I can understand the situation better, I can say, Okay, what's reasonable? I mean, what's reasonable to expect and demand of law enforcement officers knowing what it's like in those situations. So I'm not going to waste credibility with the jury, where I'm arguing something that then they're going to come up and they're going to be able to convey to the jury just how hard it is. You know that that's not a reasonable expectation, X, Y or Z, is not something so so I that's that's also something I took away from the process, like I said, it's things that I could use as I do my work. So I can either and, on the other hand, explain to my clients, this is why things are happening, right? May not like it here, go talk to the legislature, go lobby for change, right? Do that. If you don't like it. That's the way to do it. But until then, that's the way that it is, and so that's helping. And when I do that, when they can understand, when my clients understand. I have always, I've never run into a situation where, when I fully explain something, they understand why something has happened, happening that they I mean, they will accept it. Yeah, to their credit, they might be in a tough situation. And I might, you know, there might be any number of reasons to say, Well, look, you know, something else could have happened to this person. They could very well be in your position, and maybe that's not exactly fair, but what we're talking about is what's going on with you. And so that's all we're looking at. But when I can understand that, takes the frustration off, sure, I mean, and so then they can kind of go through the process and understand that this is not a system that's just like, especially in Douglas County, that is just looking to be punitive, yeah. And that is part of it. That's part of what law enforcement is has to do for us to have a society that exists. We need structure to it. That has to come in the form of law enforcement. That's just a necessary thing, but, but to do that with the added benefit of well, how can we accomplish that objective while giving people as many opportunities as we can to have them. Yeah, reasonable, exactly, reasonable opportunities. That gives them a way out, through a specialty court, through a diversion, where I can work and I can talk to, you know, an officer or a deputy and say, hey, look, you know, I think that you should support this diversion, because here's what was going on in this person's life. I mean, I'm their advocate. The Sheriff's Department is not their advocate or, I mean, they actually, he are here more than anywhere else. But in reality, they're not. I mean, there's, there's different sides to it. Yeah, we're supposed to be neutral technically, yeah. And so, you know, the prosecution is doing their thing, and they are working with, yeah, the sheriff's department, who's new? Role, yeah, who's investigated? They're not investigating to give awards for this was a very good citizen. Yes, we made a stop today, and here's your certificate that you are very good, right? They're investigating crime. Yeah, I just

Jay Armbrister: 40:13

want to let you know that you're going well under the speed limit. Thank you. Carry on. Yeah. We want to get a complaint do that, and there was a city that actually did that. They sent the officers out with these like things like$5 gift card for coffee and this to give to good drivers. They told them to stop good drivers and thank them. That took like, three hours, and the phones were melting with complaints that you just stopped me for doing what I was supposed to do. Yeah, on top of the civil liberties violations, I

Matthew Fredrick: 40:46

was going to say I would be challenging some of those 100 if you get a plain view all of a

Jay Armbrister: 40:51

sudden, you've got somebody on a warrant, or, yeah, somebody's got a roach. And, I mean, oh my God,

Matthew Fredrick: 40:56

no, I'd be filing a motion on that stuff.

Morgan Haney: 40:59

Yeah, it shouldn't have even made it that point, Matty, I just really like what you're kind of going with, because, like, you're the advocate for your clients, but I kind of have this dual role where, like, I'm your guys's advocate, but I'm also advocating for the Sheriff's Office, and not as a sheriff's office employee, but as Morgan to literally my family. So everybody that you met, everyone you talk to within the sheriff's office. I love I care about I think they're very important. And so for you guys to walk away after doing the car stops, after doing some of these high intensity things, and just feeling just a little bit softer, like a little bit more compassion, I know that, like my family, my real family, because I am married into this, and family is all over this, you're just going to be a little bit kinder to them, and that's what I care about. I want to make sure you guys are enjoying and you're learning you're having a great time. But I also have this kind of other side of me that it's just so important that we understand that everybody's stressed, everyone's doing life, everyone's trying the hardest that they can. And so I like that you asked for that non compliant driver car stop, because it was really high stress and it was really crazy. But then also as a chance for you to see the training of what our people do and how well they can do it, and how calm they can stay, it's just great. And then, on your part, Hannah, there is a method to the madness, and we purposely do that reentry, reentry simulation in the beginning, because twofold, it stresses you guys out, and so it's really interesting to see you guys carry that throughout the weeks of just thinking and referring back to that, because I did have multiple people talk about it, but also it helps me and the other instructors to see who will get along who handles stress really well, because later on, we're going to do more high stress things. And so are you going to be able to handle being in a car as we do our fast driving? Are you going to be able to handle the shooting and those kinds of things? How do you handle that high stress? And so we purposely kind of throw you in there and we just go have fun, good luck, to get you guys thinking, but just to see the dynamic of all of you guys. And I love that there are the four walls where people are back in jail or people are at home. But then there's the people that are just sitting in the chair, just going, I don't want to play anymore. You have to, but they just give up. And it's only been an hour of the simulation. And so I think that says something about how hard it is in the real life, that if an hour of us playing it, you can't get through it. I can't imagine actually doing it for

Jay Armbrister: 43:21

sure Well, and I enjoy going to those so Carrie anytime they have them out in the community or something, she asked me to come and kind of talk and explain what's going on. But I always stick around, because I love just walking around listening. And we had one, we did one for it was all judges and attorneys. And that was, it was amazing to watch these judges and these people that I know and deeply respect, and being, like, over there, like, well, this TV is worth more than $5

Matthew Fredrick: 43:48

I would like to know which people specifically, no,

Jay Armbrister: 43:51

no, absolutely. I know. I know my limits. But, and, you know, and like, one of the, I think it was a judge, or maybe one of the attorneys, they left their ID at one of the tables, and then I so I followed them around, because they didn't know where it was. Then all of a sudden, I don't know if anybody knows how hard it is to do anything without an ID in this community, especially, or just in this life. So, but the one thing that we cannot do, we just can't simulate for that is to not only make you go around and do all these things, but give you a mental illness. Give you put that, put that 1000 pound backpack on you where you can't even feel like you can leave the house without everybody staring at you or coming to get you or, you know, we can't, we can't even simulate the portion of how hard it is to do it when you're clean, sober and and ready for it, as opposed to just trying to survive day to day on top of doing all this. So I always one of our Burton ash employees pointed that out to me that one time, and it just kind of shifted the entire thing on its axis, like, holy cow. We're not even giving them. We're giving. Know, 50% of the real, the real experience.

Matthew Fredrick: 45:02

So like, imagine you're in a dark room with a strobe light, yeah, and just EDM music cranked on full, and then you have to just go through life 100% right?

Jay Armbrister: 45:11

People yelling at you and staring at you or pressed up against the window, you know? I mean, it would be, it would be somebody gives

Matthew Fredrick: 45:17

you an instruction manual to life. I mean, they don't tell you this, actually, it'd be nice if they at least warned you at some point, but they don't, and then you just kind of hitting you and it's coming at you and it's happening. You did remind me that one of my complaints with the sheriff's department might be that I did have an ID in the reentry program. It disappeared under suspicious circumstances, and I would say the sheriff's department did not invest I had some suspects. I turned some suspects to the appropriate authorities. Objection, hearsay, this is all it's in my probable cause affidavit, I'm just laying it out for the prosecutor to make a decision. Okay, we'll see that's that would be one of my complaints that I felt like I but, you know, I couldn't show that I didn't misplace it or something. I had to go get a new ID, and that's a whole rigamarole, and I needed to get new bus tickets, and then I had to do some

Jay Armbrister: 46:18

harder ring to get a bus ticket.

Matthew Fredrick: 46:22

Yeah, I think collectively, I maybe got six words doing the crossword four times.

Hannah Bolton: 46:29

For context, the crossword was a job, like it was going to your employment, and you were set specific amount of time to get a task done, and you don't get paid if you don't finish the test. It was the hardest crossword I've ever seen, and I didn't have any money. So I kept going back and I kept trying, and just they'd be like, 30 seconds, and I'm like, no,

Matthew Fredrick: 46:52

please don't call me the time. Thank you. It's okay

Hannah Bolton: 46:56

with smiles on their face, and I'm like, You're not gonna pay me. Are you? I'm going to jail tonight.

Matthew Fredrick: 47:04

Yeah, I had a more lenient employee.

Jay Armbrister: 47:06

Oh, when Sharonda, when she runs and she ain't no play in that, Mama, don't take no mask. Taking pity on me.

Matthew Fredrick: 47:15

She got me some breaks. I think, I think it was going that bad.

Jay Armbrister: 47:19

Okay, well, so let's talk about the logistics of this thing. And so can you talk about dates, deadlines, application process, how to why? Yes, never mind. We covered that.

Morgan Haney: 47:30

So the application is open right now. You guys can do that online. It's dgso.org, and then it's underneath, I'm looking at my notes, the resource tabs, community programs, and then you can apply online, right there. It's just kind of a fill in the form. It gets sent straight to me. I'll reply and notify you that I got it. And then at the end of I think we're going to close applications. At the end of February, I think, is when we do it. We usually hold it open for about two months. I'll reach back out to you and let you know if you got in or not. And then it's every Thursday night over seven weeks. The first one starts on April 2. And then your two Saturday sessions are may 18, or, I'm sorry, April 18 and may 2. And those are all day sessions. It's from like 8am to three, but those are the ones where you go out to the range and then you go to the driving course in another location. So is it still on Thursday nights? It's on Thursday nights. Like you said, it does run a little bit later. It's from 530 to 930 but I also am an Early To Bed kind of person, so I can usually Quicken it up, and you guys can get out by nine and we will feed you. Oh yeah, we feed dinner that's all provided stuff. It's very good stuff. A lot of it is local businesses here.

Jay Armbrister: 48:44

It's not all jail chili, it's not all which is also

Hannah Bolton: 48:48

good meal I had.

Morgan Haney: 48:51

So we feed you. We'll make sure that you have snacks, and we'd like you to participate for every single session. However, I know that life happens, and so you don't have to attend to every single one, and if you need to leave early or come late, it's all very flexible, and we can make that all work. And if you miss one that you really want to participate in, I'll have you come back the following year,

Jay Armbrister: 49:09

and if so, we have some folks who have come who are deeper into their their number of years, and I don't want to call them old, but we've had some folks who who are not not young, and they simply, they want to be a part of it. They want it, but there's certain parts of it they just didn't feel comfortable taking part in. Or we've had people just say, I just don't want to do the car stops, like it's not worth getting that scared or stressed out to me, but they want to observe. This is not a requirement. This is not a checkmark, graduate to graduate. So it's at your own pace. It's, it's what it's, it's a, this is a salad bar, not, not a force feeding So and, and I will say about the application process to every application that comes through for this comes to me and, and all I will say is that we are going to run a background check. We're. Are going to look into you and be honest with your application, the one thing that will get you thrown out of the process is if you're not transparent about what what has happened, or where you've been or what you've done, because there's nothing is going to surprise me, but I want to know, and then we'll and then we'll figure it out from there. Like I like I said, we've had, we've had some folks who were very thankful that we even allowed them and didn't think that we were going to let them in. And after after a conversation, it worked out perfect, and we both were glad that the other was was willing to be a part of it. So to so just be, be upfront. Tell us who you are. We want to have you. Let's see what else.

Morgan Haney: 50:39

I just also want to say, if you're interested in any part of the sheriff's office, we've already had an application come in and somebody is interested in maybe having a career with the sheriff's office. This is a great opportunity for you to learn about what we can what we can provide, what we have. Just kind of meet some people. Two academies ago, we ended up hiring like three people out of the Academy, a couple in the dispatch, and then one with us, so you can definitely come check it out, see what it's all about, try it before you buy it exactly. I think that's really great. And I do have to give a shout out to Deputy Cheek, because he referred you and like half of the other class. So he's just we need to give him a bonus, like a referral.

Jay Armbrister: 51:19

The only thing better than a deputy for him is just being a human, like he's a better human than he is. We don't deserve him.

Matthew Fredrick: 51:26

So I get to see them all the time. Like I said, it's not just the air in the courthouse and people I applied. I went straight down to the courthouse to tell them that I applied. I'm so excited. The application is open. I submitted my application. Everybody should do it. It's like jury duty. It's a duty that you should you should ask not what your county can do for your county, right?

Hannah Bolton: 51:51

I'll just note too, like Morgan, you did such a phenomenal job bringing the group together. The hospitality was incredible. It never felt burdensome, so you were in really good hands, too. Throughout the whole process, I was very impressed with the spectrum of people we met. Like I was going back through the book, and I was like, we probably met 40 people or more, and it was very hands on, like I now feel like, because I'm I have a house right across the street from the courthouse, I could holler at somebody and say, Hey, I've got something, or I need help moving something. I could guarantee that any of them would do that. Yes, and I feel really

Jay Armbrister: 52:31

thankful, and I want their names. If they won't, I will let you know.

Hannah Bolton: 52:36

But you know, it's, it's really good company. We left with a really solid cohort. I mean, a lot of them are, we're still in touch, sure. So it's pretty

Matthew Fredrick: 52:47

cool. My certificates hanging in my office.

Jay Armbrister: 52:50

Fantastic. I

Hannah Bolton: 52:51

don't know where mine is, probably in a pile of I can make, I can make you another one.

Matthew Fredrick: 52:57

Look at that. Look at the hospitality.

Jay Armbrister: 52:59

Unlike anything else, it's nonstop. All right, well, I think we've covered it. Is there anything else you can think of on the Citizens Academy front that

Morgan Haney: 53:07

we need to just real quick? Anything that we could do better next time I take notes every year, anything that you think that

Matthew Fredrick: 53:15

I legitimately cannot think of something you could shoot guns. I mean, if that's your thing, if not, you could stand back and you can kind of observe. You don't get different. You don't get to bring your own. We've had that, yeah, they don't like they don't want that. No surprises, but you but they give you some good ones, if that's your thing. I enjoyed it. The sights on it, very good.

Jay Armbrister: 53:38

Well, I think, I think that's a great point to bring up too. Is that we have a lot of folks who are just absolutely anti gun. And, speaking of my mother, she's not a fan and, and I think it's a great opportunity for you to come in and learn, because we hear a lot in the in the in the news media about AR fifteens and, and I can, I could spend the next two hours talking about the goods and the bads and, and, but, but I bring those perspectives from firsthand knowledge of having used, operated and run one of those things, so I know exactly how beneficial they are for us in the worst situations world. But I also know how deeply, deeply deadly and that they are. They are. This is where I'm going to get a little on my soapbox, yeah, here we No, no, no, no, but they are. They're weapons of war made for war in the hands of civilians. And they're, they're built specifically to create the greatest amount of trauma and casualty in a short amount of time in the tightest spaces. And we allow anybody to have them. So therefore that's why they, your sheriff's office carries them, is because we can never be outgunned in a fight, but I also understand exactly where the other side is. Like, those are so deadly. Why do they exist? Well, they exist. There's nothing more we can do about that that's not for something for me to fight about. But if you want to learn more about them, because you've never even held one, come on out. I'll show you, and you can even argue your. Point better about how, how dangerous these things are, because I'm here to tell you, they're easy to shoot and they are highly, highly efficient and so and so that's why the good guys and the bad guys love them. And so I think, I think that's a great point to make, is that that we do have people are just like, I don't want to, I don't even want a part of that. Well, this is part of the education. Of it all, is learning both sides of that, that specific issues, and all of them.

Matthew Fredrick: 55:26

And you were, and you were open to, I mean, all the discussions, to your credit. You were open to all of those. Somebody want to say, I think you're doing this completely wrong. Yeah, we had multiple times to the first session. Certainly we got to addressed us. I think is maybe how you described it. It was, it was good stuff. And then I think that's an accurate description. And then at that the range day, right? You were also there. We got to ask you questions, and we could ask anything, sure, and that's something, you know, if you can't have open, transparent conversations, then why are you not willing to talk about that's kind of my position. I'm sure if you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to nothing to wear, which I disagree with at a constitutional level, in our public entities, absolutely, and that's your position. You were open to talking about anything. And so that's very good, you know, because you have constitutional rights too. You are willing to talk about anything and willing to look at anything and listen to anybody. And yes, somebody who disagrees with guns, somebody who disagrees with law enforcement, could come and could argue their case better, because they will have a better understanding. And so if that's your thing. If that's where you want to come from, apply to the system.

Jay Armbrister: 56:43

Okay, I agree, I think. And we take all comers and and to your point too, is that when I signed up to run for like, well, now not when I get hired, but when I signed up to run for the sheriff, I basically offered myself up as a whole, warts and all, to to my community. And that's, that's, I feel like that's part of my duty, is to still be me authentically, again, warts and all. And so I am not for everybody. I don't know if you, my wife, can attest. You know, I'm not for everybody, but I don't want anybody to be afraid to ask a question or to ask me about something, because I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know that's my job, is to respond. Now, there's things I can't say and can't talk about, of course, but, but for the most part, I feel like our community deserves to hear from their leaders, the people that they put in positions of power. So, so I'm glad, I'm glad you took that away from it. So, okay, last part, I do this with everybody, if you've you say you've watched it, but, but I've actually kind of considered changing my question, but I, but I just love it so much. But, so you're going to be my guinea pigs. I'm going to ask you two questions so, but the first one is the one that others have heard. So it always it just, I'm a music guy. I can't play a lick. That's what makes me love music so much so. So what was your first concert? What was your most recent concert, and what was your favorite concert? And I could tell everybody that you can have just gone to your first concert ever, two weeks ago, and it was your favorite. You know, that's, that's, that's an acceptable answer. Or I've had people say I've never been to a concert, so I will judge you harshly, but super

Matthew Fredrick: 58:21

Yeah, I would like to go second.

Hannah Bolton: 58:23

Yeah, I wanted to let that marinate a bit. First concert was Allison Krause. I played violin growing up, yeah, and so there's,

Jay Armbrister: 58:30

that's, she's the reason I want to go to heaven, because I know what angels sound like. Holy cow, she's amazing.

Hannah Bolton: 58:36

It was the most boring concert, though, is sit, I mean, but I was like, wow.

Jay Armbrister: 58:40

Anyway, yeah, it's more about the music than the experience, right?

Hannah Bolton: 58:44

Best concert. I used to go to a lot of music festivals. Now, crowds kind of freaked me out, especially those crowds, but there was a festival in so I grew up in rural Nebraska. There was a festival called Comstock rock, and it's the middle of nowhere with all these windmills, that's the factor of it. But I got to see like Leonard skynard and our I mean, it was like REO Speedwagon, CCR, like the whole shebang. And we were going as like little kids, which was super inappropriate. Now looking back on No, but we used to go with like everyone in our community, and it was a blast. So music festivals were really fun at one point in my life. And then you said recent concert,

Jay Armbrister: 59:25

your most recent? Yes, oh, gosh, I know you've been busy.

Hannah Bolton: 59:29

Yeah, no, I haven't been too much. Kylie Minogue in Las Vegas, okay?

Jay Armbrister: 59:36

And it was a blast from the 80s. Boy, yeah. What was that song. It was a how some had a train or something. Was that her song that was so popular?

Hannah Bolton: 59:45

No, not. Locomotion, yeah. Locomotion, yeah. She did

Jay Armbrister: 59:50

a residency up there, which was a cover, I believe. So, yeah,

Hannah Bolton: 59:53

but yeah, it was a blast. Yeah, me, yeah, you're big. You seem like a Kylie Minogue fan. Yeah?

Matthew Fredrick: 59:59

Yeah. I'm not very cultured, so my problem is a lot of these and I don't have rhythm in the traditional sense, in that we'll all wonder that, right? That's one of the things I can't talk about. First concert, probably me third grade, I played the trumpet. I'm not big on concerts. For very long, understood. Most recent concert, my son jamming on a drum that Santa brought him that sounds that was the one thing they asked for. You know, singing This little light of mine, or singing other songs. There was another one.

Jay Armbrister: 1:00:39

Did you lodge a grievance with Santa for bringing your kid a drum.

Matthew Fredrick: 1:00:42

No, if that's what he asked for, and that's what he got, right? I heard, right? Santa got trapped on the roof of weavers. I think it was part of a union negotiation. Maybe they

Jay Armbrister: 1:00:54

Santa would do well to never come back to my house if he brings a drum.

Matthew Fredrick: 1:00:58

He's a little one. You know, he's only got so much force at this point, but down the road we may be, yeah, the drumsticks get lost. And then my favorite is a tie between my son and my dad and I went to Mumford and son, oh, gentleman of the road up in Iowa, yeah. And that was awesome. That was sure

Jay Armbrister: 1:01:18

I saw them probably, I guess it's probably been 10 years now, but yeah, I turned around at one point the stage lights came on and lit up. And I turned around and looked at the sandstone. I call it sandstone still. And I thought the entirety of Johnson County had been emptied out. And was with me at sandstone, like every neighbor from Lenexa was probably with me at that it was a very non diverse crowd, as I noticed so but yeah, it was a that it was a great show. Those are, they're good folks. That's, that's good stuff. The second question, though, is a question that was posed to me a long time ago, and I heard it. I've heard it before, but if you could have a beer or a cup of coffee with somebody non family that is alive or dead, who would it be, and what would you want to talk to him

Matthew Fredrick: 1:02:02

about? I would like Morgan to go first. Yeah,

Morgan Haney: 1:02:04

oh, I've already done these. Nope, not this question. I was lying transparency. I'll let you have

Jay Armbrister: 1:02:14

nope, yeah. 32nd rule,

Morgan Haney: 1:02:17

a famous person, okay, this is

Matthew Fredrick: 1:02:20

only famous. It could be

Jay Armbrister: 1:02:21

anybody, no, it could be anybody, non family. But,

Morgan Haney: 1:02:24

well, I'm just gonna say this the author, Andy Weir, and that's just because I read project Hail Mary recently, and I the ending. What happened? Why did we do this? I'm just

Jay Armbrister: 1:02:37

not he's gonna get the same treatment Santa does.

Morgan Haney: 1:02:40

If so, I would like to know what was your thought process?

Jay Armbrister: 1:02:43

That's fair. That's fair. I would, I've always, I used to think I wanted to, I would love to sit and talk with Hank Williams Senior, to find out, you know, just to, of course, I would rather. I want to have a beer with him at tootsies with nobody else in there. But just tell me, man, what? How'd it go? What was that? You know, just, I want to hear his version of everything instead of the version that we get nowadays. So, but things like that, that's, that's what, that's where I go with it. Thomas Jefferson, you know, I'd love to, because I've knowing what I know now. I got a lot of questions for that guy.

Matthew Fredrick: 1:03:19

What did you mean when you said this, yeah,

Jay Armbrister: 1:03:21

exactly, Oh, absolutely. What is a creator, a higher law? Exactly? What is a well regulated militia? Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I got questions.

Hannah Bolton: 1:03:34

Mine's probably a little more casual to probably be like Maya Rudolph or something, oh, just like a little little chat and laugh, yeah, yes, sounds great.

Morgan Haney: 1:03:45

Yeah. I'm into that one. Yeah, good.

Matthew Fredrick: 1:03:47

A lot of names coming and just gonna hit, like, drop three that came to mind, because a lot. And then when you ask a question, there's, like a pressure to answer it. Kind of, it's kind of like doing a crossword again, kind of flashing back. My cortisol levels are going up, but I'd say Marcus Aurelius. I need a translator for sure, yeah, but the guy, I mean, just if you know his life, and then you read, like, meditations, oh,

Jay Armbrister: 1:04:09

good practice. Like 12 kids and only, like, three survived. I mean, it's just this unbelievable life.

Matthew Fredrick: 1:04:15

The one son, you know, didn't turn out so great. Yeah, we can watch gladiator for that documentary, right, right? But just such somebody at his level meditations, the book

Jay Armbrister: 1:04:24

that just got that, somebody just gifted

Matthew Fredrick: 1:04:27

that to me, you should read it, because it's, I'm like, This guy was my life, okay, yeah, right. And this guy's at the top of the world. It's like, number four, my cue. I guess I better move it up. You gotta, you gotta move it up or read faster. Fair enough. Ralph Ellison, that's one an author. My dad always got to meet Albert Murray, who's his very good friend. So I do that one because I sure I have some questions for him about the Invisible Man, the book that he wrote. And you know what exactly meant, whether he ever met Mark. Malcolm X, whether they ever interact, sure. And then the other one, Dwight Eisenhower,

Jay Armbrister: 1:05:04

oh my gosh, yeah, yeah. That would. That would be a great conversation as well. I just the the breadth of his work, not just as president, but the Supreme Leader in the Allied Command. You know that would, he's got stories.

Matthew Fredrick: 1:05:18

What did he mean with his last speech warning against the dangers of the military industrial did he have anybody specific in mind? Did that have anything to do? For sure, happened his successor? Right?

Hannah Bolton: 1:05:28

Yeah. 100% Oh, I should read more gatherings from this.

Jay Armbrister: 1:05:32

Yeah? No, I too tired. Start with Calvin and Hobbes. It's always, yeah, that's easy readable.

Matthew Fredrick: 1:05:40

I'm not I'm not reading all these words.

Jay Armbrister: 1:05:43

I can do that. Yeah, okay, well, thank you so much for for your kind words, first off and in your support, but thank you for giving back and helping with to try to get the next generation of our Citizens Academy up and running. So we appreciate you coming along. Thank you again to Morgan for being Morgan all the time and and I appreciate everything. So we'll we'll see you next time. On episode number eight, I'm working on a very special episode. I there is a former Sheriff that that actually hired me, that I really want to get in here and talk to because I have questions for him, and I know he can tell some stories if he's willing. So so I'm looking forward to that one as well. So thank you so much, both of you, for coming and thank you for everything.

Unknown: 1:06:27

Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us. Absolutely you you.