View from 100
View from 100 is the Douglas County Sheriff's Office Podcast hosted by Sheriff Jay Armbrister.
The show highlights both the inner workings and external community partnerships of the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office in Kansas. The goal through these long-form conversations with Sheriff Armbrister is to connect with audiences who might not have as much in-depth knowledge of the Sheriff’s Office and other issues related to public safety and criminal justice in the community.
View from 100
Episode 06 - Support & Second Chances: DGSO Reentry Team
Sheriff Jay Armbrister hosts the "View from 100" podcast episode 06, featuring Carrie Neis and Shelby Osborn of the Douglas County Sheriff's Office Reentry team.
The program helps people in custody transition back into society, addressing barriers like housing, mental health and substance abuse. Neis, director or reentry, and Osborn, a reentry case manager, emphasize the importance of meeting inmates where they are and providing tailored support.
They highlight the success of the medication-assisted treatment program, which has seen significant reductions in recidivism. The program also collaborates with local agencies to provide comprehensive services, including housing and job assistance. They also underscore the need for more staff and housing resources.
Oh, that helps, yeah, okay, killing snakes, okay, all right, okay, stop. Do we need to collaborate and or listen? Am I supposed to hear you in my head? Yeah, you should be able to hear me a little
Shelby Osborn:bit. I don't. I only hear you out loud. Number
Jay Armbrister:four. Mike, check, 120, yeah, okay. Does that help? Yeah? Yeah. I always think of uh, Joe Dirt, where he's like, mike check, at least. Don't worry, I aspirated on my spit. I'm okay. Don't forget to record the video. Oh, okay. All right, welcome back, folks. It's the next and newest episode of the view from 100 podcast. I'm your sheriff, Jay Armbruster. My badge number is 100 so therefore that's the name of this thing. Is the view from my seat. And today we have one of the episodes that I actually had pictured in my head when we had talked about doing something like this, and it was to because our whole goal here is to not only kind of talk about community resources, but also talk about what the sheriff's office does, and a lot of the work that happens behind the scenes that community members folks may not know about this is going to wrap them both together, and it's something that I'm deeply proud of this. Is this, this re entry unit that we're about to talk about is not my brainchild. It was, it was here before I showed up. But I do believe it is probably one of the most creative but also innovative and impactful things that we have going in the sheriff's office. So today we have, well, I'll let these ladies explain who they are first, but, but we were going to talk through the re entry program, and it's housed within our jail, and they work with folks who are incarcerated in jail and are hoping to or soon or about to transition out into into the real world and their their core work is to try to set those folks up for success and keep them from coming back to jail, which, in the long run, is best for everybody, the community and the sheriff's office and the person included. But their work is so multifaceted, and the breadth is so deep in that there's so much to do and so little time. So with all of that said, I'll quit talking about it. So we'll just start with introductions. Who are you? Where do you come from? Why are you here? Why do you stay? What's wrong with you? Things like that. And then we'll start with you, Carrie,
Carrie Neis:yeah. So my name is Carrie. Nice. I am the reentry director out at the jail. I have been with the sheriff's office since 2019 prior to Douglas County, I worked in probation over in Johnson County since about 2011 and so I have worked in the field of criminal justice for a few years now.
Jay Armbrister:So yeah, what brought you? What brought you to Douglas County from Johnson
Carrie Neis:County? So Johnson County, I did an internship with them while I was in college, and really liked it over there, but it never felt like home. And so part of coming to Douglas County is I've lived in Douglas County for 1718, years now. I grew up in neighboring Franklin County,
Jay Armbrister:Wellsville, right, yes,
Carrie Neis:and then moved up here when I got married to my husband, and we now have a family here. And yeah, it just feels like working at home and taking care of my community. Sure.
Jay Armbrister:Okay, very good, very good. Ed you. Who are you?
Shelby Osborn:My name is Shelby, and I am a reentry case manager with the sheriff's office. I've been with the sheriff's office since the beginning of 2021 similar to Carrie, I've worked in criminal justice since 2013 when I started at the Kansas juvenile correctional complex and spent some time in some different positions there and learning several different job skills and stuff. And then my ultimate position was corrections counselor, which was similar to, like a re entry standpoint, but jail base, or, I mean, sorry, prison base, facility base, and so it kind of felt like your hands were tied in the work that you could do and how you could help other people. So when the position came open for Douglas County, I applied, and have loved it ever since, just because for. Yeah, it's creative in what we do, and we actually get to go about in the community and see the impact that we
Jay Armbrister:make sure. So when you were doing the corrections work, was that in a prison, okay? And was it an adult or juvenile?
Shelby Osborn:Juvenile, the Kansas juvenile prison, so the only juvenile prison for the State House both males and females. So different population. They were sentenced there, stayed there, did their time there, so I was limited in the work that I could do for the release and trying to help them.
Jay Armbrister:Okay, and, and that's in Topeka, right, yep, okay, all right, so, and you're, where are you from?
Shelby Osborn:I am originally from
Jay Armbrister:Emporia town. Yeah, it's cool town. I like it. I like him. For you,
Shelby Osborn:there's not much there, but
Jay Armbrister:I've had fun every time I've been there. So something,
Shelby Osborn:yes. And then I did an internship with Lyon County Probation while I was in college, and then decided, really, that was probably my calling, that I wanted to say in the criminal justice field, sure. Um, tossed around the idea of law school, right? Um, ended up moving to Topeka, and was like, Okay, I'm not going back to school, so I started at the juvenile
Jay Armbrister:Okay, okay, so did you get a degree for Emporia or Okay, so you're a Hornet. Stingers up. I just learned that, like, a year ago, so I'd use it every chance I get. So kind of talk, talk to me. Talk through the basics, but then, well, I'd take the back, let's let's go back. No, no, no, I lied. I'm on the fly here. We're gonna do this. So talk to me about the basics. What is it that a typical day looks like, what is a typical client looks like. But then also talk about, you know, everything from getting people's shoes to walk out the door with to birth certificates and apartments and work and that kind of stuff. So what's it? What's kind of a typical What's your job description?
Carrie Neis:Yeah, so as a case manager with re entry, like you said, it can be somebody simply was arrested in a bikini and has no clothes to wear out the door to a person needs to return home to Georgia to their family, because they got here and Lawrence wasn't exactly what they had envisioned. So pamphlet lied, right? Right? So it can look like a lot of different things when a person's in custody, usually that never improves their situation too much. They're going to leave leave custody, not in the greatest shape. So a lot of barriers evolve as you are in custody. It can look like housing, mental health, substance use, sober living, a lot of different things. So case managers wear a lot of different hats, anywhere from assessing people for specialty courts, we have two case managers that one works in drug court and one works with behavioral health court. We have a map program which,
Jay Armbrister:which are specialty courts where and I got in trouble by my mother and my mother in law that I was speaking in acronyms, and I was talking about things that only I knew about, because I would deal with it. So the specialty courts are, there's drug court, there's behavioral health court, and we were working on a veterans court. But those are specialized courts where you've been charged with a crime, where you would normally stay in the regular criminal justice system, but you've met a series of criteria or guidelines that move can move your case out into the specialty court, which goes in front of a particular prosecutor, a particular defense, typically, and a very particular judge that only handles those cases. And you can have a different outcome, where your charges can be handled in a different way if you basically are willing to be part of the program. So okay, so
Carrie Neis:yeah, and so we also have a map program at the jail that's medicated assisted treatment, right? It is geared towards alcohol use and opiate use disorder, so essentially, you can get put on medication while you're in custody, we get you linked up with treatment options, and then we can release you into the community, and we have programming and funding that can pay for those injections, which are super expensive and painful and painful, but the success that we Have Seen from that for our folks has been incredible, sure, long term sobriety, long term success. We have one gentleman I can think of off the top of my head who just graduated with a four year degree, no nice, who started with us several years ago in the MAP program through reentry. Sure so
Jay Armbrister:and the MAP program. To speak specifically about the injection. It's it basically it has to be kept very cold, so it's very it comes out, I was told, basically like peanut butter, which is what makes it very difficult and very painful. But also, we know so the word in the in the in the jail is that if you're going to get on. The MAP program. This is going to be a painful journey, physically, and of course, just the recovery portion of it, but it's, it's, it's usually by the time that somebody is ready to be better, and they're ready to put themselves in a position to be better by by sacrificing some some comforts that when they're ready to do that, we kind of know we have them ready or bought in and ready to go. So it's, I mean it by design. It's just the way it is. But it also helps kind of get people to the point where they're like, Yeah, I'm ready to do this. I'm ready to, like, give it all up to do it. So it's, it's a unique and that's only been going on for what? Three, four years,
Carrie Neis:three, three solid years. Okay, our first year, we got started, and then our second year, we had 97 injections that we gave for the year. Last year we I think we did somewhere around 4040s, injections, but we had a lot more inductions while we were in custody. So you want to expose the inmate to the medication when they're in custody. So sometimes we see people get exposed to it. Say, not really for me, but then they come back and they're like, Okay, now I'm ready. Now I'm ready. It's amazing
Jay Armbrister:what a little more reality can do. So yeah, and it doesn't just knock out their cravings. It actually makes it to where it'll make them physically sick, like if they if they do the alcohol injection, like they can't drink,
Carrie Neis:period. No, that's not the, not, not the, okay, yeah, so you won't get drunk if you drink. Oh, is that okay? But you, your body still ingest the alcohol. Sure is risk. Sure you could get alcohol points for
Jay Armbrister:sure. Okay, so, so you can still take it in, it just doesn't give you the effect. Oh, okay.
Shelby Osborn:Opioid is a different story. Now. What does it do? So if you have opioids in your system and you get the injection, they put you into a media withdrawal. Oh,
Jay Armbrister:really? Oh, no. Opioid withdrawal is, I mean, obviously, I don't know, but alcohol withdrawal will kill you. Opioid withdrawal is, is just as close to hell as some people. But I did learn also is that methamphetamine, you cannot die from methamphetamine withdrawal. I had no idea that. I was told that recently, I was like, wow, that's, that's, but alcohol is the most dangerous for for people to pass away from. So I don't even know where we were, but so that's kind of the typical day. But so, so obviously, I know a lot of the answers to these questions, but I I want, I want to ask them anyways, is there a minimum amount of time somebody has to be in custody for them to begin working with you?
Carrie Neis:No, not necessarily. We get people from a lot of different ways and places. So we offer programming in the jail. So our case managers, along with our program coordinator, teach groups in the jail during the week during the day. So if somebody signs up to come to one of those groups, they get exposed to re entry that way, so they may self refer and say, Hey, I'd like to work with you guys. I'd like to hear what you guys have to offer. We get referrals from attorneys a lot. Sometimes we have family members call in, gosh, specialty courts, anything else you can think of,
Shelby Osborn:anything like honestly, they get referred in all sorts of
Jay Armbrister:ways, probably other other incarcerated folks, like, hey, you need to talk to Shelby, or you need to get a hold of Carrie. They can help you with that. Yeah, so. So if somebody is in just gets arrested on a Friday night and gets released on Sunday morning, like you said, if they don't have shoes to walk out the door, you all can step in and help them. You know, they don't have to be there for 48 hours or for a full week. As on the flip side, if you have somebody that's in for a year doing a year, you have a full year of time to work with them and help them get prepared, so to speak.
Carrie Neis:Yeah. So one, one approach that our team is trained in is motivational interviewing, and so with that method, you it's about client choice. So where are they at with their stage of change, of what they want to do with themselves or with their life? Yeah, so we meet them where they're at, if they if we go to meet with them and say, Hey, this is what we have to offer. And they say, thanks, but get the hell away from myself. Yeah, that happens. That's okay. We will tell we will leave them alone, but we still plant that seed and we say, this stuff is an option for you, if that's something that you ever choose, sure. So the motivational interviewing is just designed to give them the choice and move them along the continuum of change, sure. So we use that in every interaction that we have with the inmates. Sure.
Shelby Osborn:I would also say, like, depending on it, can play a variable, variable of length of stay, but also, like, some of the things that they want, so like, if they only. Come in and they're just like, I just want housing, referral, I just want shoes, hygiene, that sort of thing. That's more of just like re entry services that we provide, whereas case management, we go a little bit more in depth in the services and the things that we're working on, so we get referrals for both
Jay Armbrister:Sure, okay, and if somebody says, All I need are these things, you don't try to push the other services onto them if you feel like they need them, but, but you're not going to, not going to make these services dependent upon you doing this full basket of services. So
Carrie Neis:No, we've seen several times where an inmate will come in and they say, All I want is hygiene in a backpack and put it in my property. Yeah, that's fine. Also put Shelby's card in there in hopes that,
Jay Armbrister:if Shelby's not around you, put her card in there
Carrie Neis:in hopes that maybe they will reach out, or maybe the next time that they come in, and we've seen that happen, where the next time they come in, they're like, hey, remember that conversation we had? Well, let's talk about it now. Yeah,
Jay Armbrister:so and, and if you work with somebody for a significant amount of time and have them all set up for all of these things, when they get out and they fail spectacularly and they end up back in jail, is there a waiting period, or is there anything? Or are they eligible for services right again? Right away?
Carrie Neis:Yep, they're eligible again for services again. We'll kind of meet them where they're at one of our I guess mottos is, we're not going to work harder at it than they are. And so sometimes it's an eye opener when you match the level of enthusiasm when they're when they're in custody, they want to work real hard, right, right? Yeah. But then once they get out, and we never hear from them that does get frustrating, sure. So
Jay Armbrister:yeah. Or you have people who just want you to do all the work for them, yes,
Shelby Osborn:and that you can definitely start to weed out. Like, yeah, I'd say, like, the biggest thing also is, like, every time they get booked in, meet with them. Let them know who you are, let them know what's available. They may reject it. I had an individual that I'd met with probably 10 plus times over a series of multiple different bookings. And eventually he came around and was like, hey, I want to work with re entry so, but that's also the start of the rapport and right? Just being a familiar
Jay Armbrister:for sure, for sure. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I was a kid, I did dumb shit all the time, and it took several times for me to figure out that I didn't want to do that anymore, or I didn't like the consequences. And I think that's I just the point I'm trying to make is that we get it that people, we have a failure rate, because we only work with human beings, and they are going to fail sometimes spectacularly. But we also know that there comes a time when they're in their life where they're like, I'm ready to be better. And those are the people that we are ready to invest, to invest our times and resources and money in. Because if we can keep somebody out of jail, and this is me being editorial, if we can keep somebody out of jail, it costs about a little over $230 a day to keep a human being inside our jail, and if we can keep them out for 30 days, I mean, that's a lot, a lot of money, so I'm more than happy to spend $60 on a new ID and birth certificate for somebody, if it's going to save us 1000s of dollars of them not coming back to jail because They simply don't have the ability to get an apartment. Get a job, do these things. So So yeah, so that's it. We you always have now this community, not so much, but you always have people say that jails should be more bars, more guards, more walls. That's all there is to it. And I just, I don't see it that way. And luckily for me, this community, not only have the sheriffs before me agreed that we need to have these services, but the community has funded it. Our county commission has been very good about funding this. And last year, we just got a new employee for your unit through our budget process. And I've for five years. Coming up on my fifth year, I've had to fight every year to get certain, you know, new employees added to my budget. That's the only one that I didn't have to fight for, because they know the importance of the work, and they're just like, absolutely, you know, we want you to continue to be good at this and be a leader in the nation. So, so you, where do you work? Where Yeah, like, physically, where's your office?
Carrie Neis:Yeah. Physically, I am inside the jail on the third floor, in cell 3309,
Jay Armbrister:cell but it is number Yeah, it used to be better than mine. Yes. In the back corner, yes. And you were in the old learning lab, or whatever we called it so. Well, the point I'm making is that you work inside the facility, in the secure facility, next to the jailers, the deputies and all the other support staff. So you work side by side, hand in hand, in person, with folks who are in custody. How? How has that been? As. Yes, you know, and, and here's the part where I'm going to I'm going to sound probably sexist, but our reentry team is currently made of all females, and so I have a horrible habit of saying the reentry ladies, and that's not fair. I'm sorry. I'm apologizing for now and for the past, but I know that being female and working in the jail is is got to be extremely intimidating and difficult. So how do you navigate that? How, how has that worked for you and what, what has worked for you? As far as making that, because I want folks who are interested in this kind of work to know that there is a way to do this. I mean, we can never promise a, you know, 1,000% safety, because it's, again, we're working with only humans. But how has it been for you all, for both of you?
Carrie Neis:Yeah, so it's gonna sound odd, but I don't mind working in a jail. I feel fairly safe in our jail. We have close relationships with all the deputies and CEOs, and that's corrections officer, corrections officer. And so we, I don't know. I mean, I feel like we, I feel like part of the family there, sure, and they take care of us. We do what we can to make their jobs easier. And, you know, I will say, though, that working in a jail is not for everyone. So there are internships, and there are opportunities to just kind of try it out, try it before you buy it. Yeah, because it's not for everyone, but if you enjoy it, then it's your jam. Then, yeah, I think it'll work out good. So
Jay Armbrister:yeah, it's just getting over that, that first step probably just getting in there and seeing what it's actually like. So has that been kind of your experience
Shelby Osborn:as well? Yeah, I came from a prison facility, so I was pretty used to like the security aspect, and I do feel safe in the Douglas County Jail. I think the response time is very quick, and I think that everybody has each other's back in all the situations. One of the other things that you have to get used to is there, I've never smelled so many different smells in a jail, and at one point it's unique. It is one point in my career, my grandma got to tour the Kansas juvenile correctional complex, and she said the biggest adjustment was like hearing the door slam behind so that I've just kind of zoned out. I've been working there so long, but I do know that like that is hard for some people to feel like, as you're waiting in between those Sally ports that you never know what could happen, and I'm stuck. Yeah, I will
Carrie Neis:say, too, there's a level, I don't want to say, a level of comfort, but we're there to help people in the you know, knock on wood. I don't know if we have anyone in here, but we've never had any behavior issues, per se, the inmate, everything with reentry is voluntary. So if they want to work with us, if they want to come to group and learn, if they want to engage, we're here for sure. Nobody's ever forced to come. And so I think it's a little bit different when you're working with somebody who wants to engage for Oh, yeah. So yeah, but yeah, the inmates, okay, I'll leave it at that. Yeah. Well,
Jay Armbrister:yeah. I have found too that if, especially among the inmate population, if there is a program or something that they are extremely interested in, or they're trying to work through, and somebody else comes in and starts messing around with it or treating it with disrespect. They're usually the ones that will square it up right away. It's not a percent. It's not our job. You know that it doesn't usually get to that, because they'll be like, Hey, if you're not going to be here, if you don't want to be part of this, get out. Because I'm I'm doing the work over here. And so I've found that to be pretty, pretty self evident over the years, that that they police their own when it comes to that, especially if they're trying to invest themselves in something. So yeah, no. And but then to segue away from working inside the secure perimeter of the jails, you do a lot of work outside of the jail as well. So, and I think that's, that's one of the biggest misconceptions, is that once a person is released out into into the community, that your work stops. But that is just not really the case. And so tell us, what does that look like? How does it How does that work for you all? I mean, what do you have to do?
Carrie Neis:Yeah. So releasing into the community can look a lot of different ways. Sometimes an individual's already working with another community agency, and so we are more of a bridge to get them back to them. We try to do warm handoffs, so meeting together with the other case manager, making sure they're getting connected things of that nature. Our case managers, the ones that we're doing case management with. We follow them into the community, and they're they're meeting them in the community at McDonald's heartland. Sure public places we transport when our case managers go out, they go out in pairs, and they transport people to doctors and. Yeah, job interviews, really, anything that you can imagine that would be a barrier we help
Jay Armbrister:address. Okay, so if I'm if I'm released, having been worked with you, and I'm on my own, but I find myself with no ride to court. Is that something that that they could call and be like, hey, Carrie, I just cannot get to court. I do not want to get a warrant. Can Is there something you can do that's something where you would work with getting them find a way to get them
Carrie Neis:100% whether it's us, yeah, whether it's Uber, sure, we can order them an Uber on the app and get them there communication with us is 100%
Shelby Osborn:Yeah? I was gonna say I have a scenario the other day that I had an individual that was at treatment had an A warrant issued while she was at treatment. Yeah, knew the days that she would be releasing from treatment, picked her up, we took her to the court, resolved that warrant, and, like, assisted her in getting into sober living. So usually they've communicated with us long before that court process has taken place, and we're aware of how to make a plan in place. But, like, that's our biggest thing, is being able to make a plan with them, right? Yeah. So I know, for, like, specifically, going into the community, sometimes we meet them at sober living in Oxford, HH, Cardinal house.
Jay Armbrister:Oh, don't get Yeah, we're gonna get to them. Don't Just don't be skipping ahead on me. But I think, and that's, again, another part of this entire system where there's misconceptions, but there's also just simple misunderstandings. Is like, and, you know, working in the jail for all those years, I saw it play out, where I've been arrested in Olathe for, you know, some sort of a theft charge. Well, then I'm in Lawrence three weeks later, and I get arrested up there for a stolen car. I go to jail in Lawrence, but I'm while I'm in the Douglas County Jail, I miss my court date in Johnson County. So now a warrant will be waiting, because we don't transfer, transfer people over to another county just to go to court. We just can't do it and and there, and that county is not going to come and pick you up and pick and take you back. So you end up with a warrant. So then you get released from Douglas County. Now you got to go to Johnson County, and while you're in Johnson County, you may miss your Douglas County room, and so we'll have this where people will simply transfer back and forth. But what I've found is that the courts are extremely good about just like with the scenario you were saying is like, hey, you know, Judge mccabria, I've got this person, she's getting out of sober living, but she has a warrant through your court. Can we set up a time on the eighth when she gets out that I could bring her and we can resolve this? And if you can get the attorneys involved and get everybody there, the courts have been amazing at making that happen, because they don't want to ruin somebody's progress as well. And so I just don't think that that's actually how it works across the country all the time, because a lot of places are like, I issued a warrant. They missed it. She's gonna have to wait and see me. Well, they just don't care. It feels like that. That's just not that's not what I've really found here in Douglas County as well. So I love this county and but it's just so different outside of here and, and to hear, you know, it's, it's funny, too. And again, this is me going off on a tangent. Is that the rest of the state likes to make fun of Douglas County. They like to say, you know, all the other sheriffs will be like, Hey, how are things in woke Lawrence, you know? And, and they'll say this crazy stuff to me about how we're just liberals and we're, you know, whatever. But then a program like this will get up and moving, and we'll show be able to show that we're keeping people out, that we're investing this money, but saving this money. Next thing you know, they're coming back. Like, how, how did you make that work? How did, how did you get your commissioners on board with that? They watch what we do here, because we really are, and I didn't realize until I became Sheriff, but we are innovators in not just the Midwest, but pretty much in the country, when it comes to a lot of these initiatives. Now, reentry has really gained traction nationwide, but not many other places in the state are doing this. I mean, what is Sedgwick County probably has it's Johnson County has it. I don't know about Shawnee County. They probably
Carrie Neis:have. Johnson County has a version. Sedgwick County has, has something in Shawnee County is working, sure, yeah, yeah,
Jay Armbrister:so. But if you get, you get out into, you know, Thomas County, Stanton County, gray County, those get west of Topeka, really, honestly. I mean, it's, it's hard to find because, I mean, obviously they don't have the resources, and a lot of those places are the staffing. But I staffing, but it's just there. It's very difficult for people to get out of the system out there without this kind of help. So I think that the residents of Douglas County have really, I just don't think they know how good some of the people who do the work really are at what they do so, and that's what I'm trying to tell them about. So through this, what what do you see, and as we talk about how great we are at these things, what do you see as the biggest gap or the biggest need in this system that you work within? Where? Where are we? Where do we need to be? If you had a school. Billion dollars, and you could fix this problem. Where would you invest that money today?
Carrie Neis:Housing? Have an answer. It's not housing, okay? I would say, give me more staff, mainly because, you know, we work in the community with so many different we have a lot of great agencies in Douglas County, but reentry is really good at what they do. We have, we keep five housing vouchers, transitional housing vouchers, keeping an individual housed is a full time job, sure, and we have three full time case managers in five vouchers. And in the past three to four years, those five have been filled completely, and so it's a lot of work to keep someone housed. And I I want to ask the housing authority for more vouchers, which I think they would maybe give us, but I don't have this staff to staff to support keeping people housed like that. So I think the, you know, like I said, there's a lot of different agencies in the community doing the work, I personally think we're the best at it, but we need more staff to do it. So,
Shelby Osborn:yeah, I would agree that we do need staff. Douglas County is unique, and, like you've mentioned about having more resources. And once somebody is motivated and they're wanting to make that change for themselves, they the stars kind of just start to align, and those resources are available when they need it. The problem is sometimes when they use the resources and then they aren't available when they want to make that change. So that's the hard part of there's only so many limited researchers.
Jay Armbrister:We gotta strike while the iron is hot too. So okay, well that how are things? Because I know at one time transitional housing, so moving out of the jail without a place to go was a problem, and we already talked mentioned Cardinal Housing Network now, but artists helping the homeless. A hh, how have, how has that really kind of filled or plugged a need or filled a gap in the system for you guys?
Carrie Neis:Yeah, so both of them work primarily, exclusively with reentry right now. So we we have the ability to get interviews and get people plugged in there that are in the right space to accept the changes and kind of move forward with change in their lives. I will say too, we have a really good relationship with LCS, which is the Lawrence community shelter,
Jay Armbrister:yeah, that hasn't always been that way. It
Carrie Neis:hasn't always been that way, but they have been amazing in the fact that we have a couple shelter space beds that are always available to our team. We have a couple spaces out back in the monarch village, so in those units are full right now, we have both of them filled, and then we also have some over at the palette village, yeah. And so when we, I mean, we generally have options, it's whether or not the person has already burned those bridges, yeah. And then we have to, you know, kind of start from ground zero and advocate, yeah, you know, walk them through that.
Jay Armbrister:And once somebody has burned that bridge or has a trespass warning for, for, let's just say, for the palette village. Have have they been, has it been, is there a path to rescind that? I mean, do they, if they can show that like a that's, yeah, that was me, but that's not me anymore type thing. Okay,
Carrie Neis:so part of that relationship with LCS is we will start kind of baby steps, and we'll say, let's start them with a reentry bed at LCS, yeah. Let's make it that those three days with no issues, sure. And then after that three days, then we we go back and we advocate, okay, yeah. Everything went well, can we do another week? Yeah, and then maybe step to a palette, sure. But you kind of have to build that trust back up between that client and the community partner, and we've had some success in doing that. And the monarch village, that's kind of a new project for us, but it's going well. Some of our very, very hard to house individuals can live in those units out back. We treat them similar to our vouchers, where we're checking on them regularly, doing case management, but then looking for long term options for them, right? So the shelter Community Living isn't very conducive to them being successful. So you can put them, put them in a monarch village, a little more secluded their own space, yes. So each each inmate, I say, I would say, is different in what their needs kind of look like, yeah? So we kind of have that option tailor
Shelby Osborn:made, yeah, sure. And I would say, when we're referring to housing, it's case by case on the individual right. Working with them, you kind of know what the best fit would for them would be. Or, like, where they want to go, like, we've had individuals that are like, they have social anxiety and they don't want to go to an Oxford, and they would do better in like, a one on one setting, like a pallet. But the palette isn't for everyone, right? So I would say it's case by case, but I will say that, like, we had an individual that had destroyed some property pretty significantly at LCS, and they were willing to sit down and meet with us and talk about a behavioral contract and like, what would be different, and they were willing to accept that person. So that partnership looks a lot different than it did a few years ago. So we're grateful for that. What?
Jay Armbrister:So, I mean, you can't be in corrections, probation, housing like that, unless you're willing to talk through second in 19th chances. That's just how it goes sometimes. So in I also wanted to back up too, because we talked about artists helping the homeless and Cardinal network, and for the folks who don't know what those are, it's a transition to housing and Cardinal network is brand new, but it's going to be the exact same thing, only for females, but artists helping the homeless was developed in Kansas City, Missouri. I believe car Wu developed this and and a lot of people, it's a misnomer. They hear the term artists helping the homeless, and they think it's like art therapy or something. This is just, it's just not, that's not right, but that's why they've gone to a hh, you know, try to rebrand. But what it is, is it's transitional housing, where you can leave jail and go to live in one of their homes, but you're going to be living in there with a other folks who are transitioning out. But also, basically, it's a peer model, where you're going to have other men living in the home with you that have have made themselves, have made it through a program, and are now living successfully, but they are still living there to make sure that the next generation comes through and learns what they need to learn to be successful. So, and I'm a huge advocate for peer models, because I can stand in front of a room full of people and tell them how they need to live right and stay out of jail and do do the good things, and they're not going to listen to me, because I've never lived their life, and rightfully so. But you bring a person in who has done the work, has been there, seen that, and lived it and and is now being successful, they will listen to them. And so that's that's one of the it's one of the things that I as the sheriff have really tried to try to invest our resources into propping up, is these transition, peer based housing situations. So that way, because, to me, it's just, it's the only way to go. You know, it's, it's been extremely successful. We have a great partnership with Dustin and car Wu and the rest of the team to the point where, like, I mean, Brandon scripture, you know, I just, I remember Brandon from, from, from coming to work every day and feeding him, you know, and and now to see him out and engage with him on a, just a deeply personal level. Like, hey, Brandon, how are you, how are you know, how's this going? How's that going? It's a, it is really, really nice to see. So, yeah, I'm going to bring those dudes in, and we're going to talk about about what they do someday. And Dustin's story is, is fantastic. So what else do you think if, if you could whisper into the minds of everybody in this community one thing, or some, some, something that you think that they need to know and don't know about the work you do. What would that be, and, and I'm kind of putting you on a spot, but like I asked Stacy this UnderSheriff Simmons this thing, and her answer was that we're not the national narrative. You know, we're not what you see on the news. And what would that be When, when, when people think about people in jail and people getting out of jail. What is it that people need to know that that you do, that you don't think that they understand or think they should know?
Shelby Osborn:Me personally, I think that, like everybody, at the end of the day, we're all human, or we are one chance or one decision away from making a bad decision like and you put stress and mental health and substances all on top of that, anything could be the end result of that. So I always like to think of like, being the type of person that I would want in that situation, but like, also just being treated like a human right, like we're just expecting the kindness from other people. And I used the analogy the other day, like reentry is just kind of like we're going bowling. Reentry is the bumpers, and they're just the ball, and we're just trying to help them make a strike, right? Like we're guiding them. They're doing the work, and we're just kind of navigating what that process looks like for the best possible
Jay Armbrister:hour. Sounds to me like you're rodeo clowns. You're just kind of making sure that they don't fall off and get killed, you know, but, but it's, I think that's a great way of looking at it too. Is like they have to do the work ultimately, and you're just occupying the spaces around them and providing some some resources to help make them. Them be successful, or help them to be successful for themselves. So,
Shelby Osborn:yeah, I think a big thing also is, like, can't do something you don't know how to do. So, like, part of this is resources. Part of this is learning a connection to things, to be able to get a different outcome. For sure, I don't play basketball, so like, unless somebody was gonna go teach me how to dunk and do a layup and stuff like that. That's not something I would expect the first
Carrie Neis:go around. You're never gonna dunk lower
Shelby Osborn:foot. And I got this.
Jay Armbrister:So there's a great book, and it's by Oprah and a guy named Dr Bruce Perry. It's called What happened to you, but it talks about childhood traumas, and this is it. You just peaked. It just brought something to me, but it's we expect. We have people come to jail who have lived these chaotic, crazy, dysfunctional lives. Me growing up in this, you know, beautiful family, you know, with means, and I don't, I know nothing about, but we, we take them and we arrest them, and we bring them out of this chaotic, terrible situation, we put them in jail, and we're like, okay, don't do this anymore. And then we send them right back out into that that and we expect a different result. And that's not really their fault, because a lot of them don't know, you know. And in that book about about childhood trauma, they say that you cannot give what you did not receive. And if you were born into a home where neither of your parents could speak, you were raised not knowing how to speak, you may have the ability, but you don't know because nobody showed you how to do it. And it goes the same for love. If your parents didn't know how to love you and didn't show it to you, you don't know how to love to give it in return. And these folks, it's, it's, it's amazing, how many of how many folks just simply don't know how to pay rent or how to pay their bills or how to balance a budget or do these things, and it's not their fault, it's it's not because they didn't want to learn. They simply just were never given the opportunity. And these things that we take for granted, who were raised in a really, really good environment. It's just something I've always known, but they don't get that. And it's sometimes you got to walk it clear back to basics. Like, okay, on Tuesday you have to do this, and then on on the first of the month, you have to do this. And I think people kind of lose track, because there's like, Oh, these deadbeats don't even know how to do this. Yeah, they never learn. They just don't know. And how do we expect them to know
Shelby Osborn:that? I have an individual that something as simple as the getting housed in their first apartment for the first time and getting the keys and having to set up a West star energy account to log on, that was like foreign and being able to even get that set up so that you had a service address to be able to use like, and that's just something like, we take for granted so easily. And also, I think sometimes we get frustrated, like, I say we as a community, get frustrated because they're like, they've had several opportunities, like, how come they haven't learned kind of thing? But it's not, it's not
Jay Armbrister:that easy, absolutely not that easy. So another thing you said made me want to ask you a question. I want to see if your number matches my number in here of today, you walk into the jail. How many of the incarcerated people inside our jail are suffering from one of two things, mental illness, struggles, or addiction, or both,
Shelby Osborn:everyone. Okay, thank
Jay Armbrister:you. That 100 is 100% yes. So I think that I mean rarely, rarely do you have somebody who spends any amount of time who is not suffering from one of those two things and and I think it's very difficult for people who don't suffer under those things to understand. And we talk about this during the re entry simulation, which we ought to circle back to, but we set up, we these, these wonderful humans, set up this simulation where you have to basically navigate the system of trying to figure out how to make money and make it to job, to court and do all these things, but what we can't do during the simulation is give you an addiction and withdrawal. We cannot give you a a severe and persistent mental illness that you have to carry with you through this, because it's it's really hard to go to court when you think that everybody is out to get you, or that something is going to happen, and people say, Well, why won't you go to court? Well, you can't really explain that. So I think it just as you say it's so it's not as easy as people seem to think. It's like he always got to do is go to court. This dude cannot even get out of his sleeping bag because he thinks that something's terrible is going to happen to him? Yeah. So I just, I wish we had a little more compassion sometimes, and empathy for the folks who are struggling from things that don't show up on X rays
Shelby Osborn:well. And I think another thing is, like, we think everything is instantaneous, so like, I. Mean, Amazon Prime does come to my house in two days, and
Jay Armbrister:I am speaking of addictions,
Shelby Osborn:but like for example, one of the things that reentry helps navigate is getting vital documents, like birth certificate, social security cards, that sort of thing. And I was tracking that and submitting them for a while, and there was an individual that was out of Oklahoma in New Jersey, I don't recommend having a child in New Jersey. I had to send my badge, I had to send a notarized letter. I had to explain what it's for and send all these documents as the case manager requesting this document for them, and it was nine months to a year before we received those documents. There is nothing that you can do to get an ID, a job, or any like living without those vital documents. And if I am having to jump through hoops to get it, imagine, imagine somebody else that's never had to deal with, you know, calling up an agency, waiting on the phone. Also, you have a barrier of like, some people don't know how to use a computer, and everything is digitalized nowadays, so, like, there's just the barriers on those that we just day in and day out. Don't think about that. Aren't our people face every day? Yeah,
Jay Armbrister:no. And I think it's amazing, and I certainly didn't know this how, how handcuffed you become if you don't have your id and id. And, I mean, if you want to just get housing, a job, all these things, nothing, you can do nothing without this ID. And it's crazy that people would, I mean, it's crazy to think that a night what I don't even know what they cost now, $23 or whatever to get an ID that you can 20 to $75 can stand between you and and a successful life. And, of course, and we gladly pay that, that money for these people, these folks who are trying to get out and make make good on it, but, but the other thing is, some a system that we've had in place for a while is that a lot of folks, you know, you go to the DMV, which is painful for everybody, even if, I think even the folks that work at the DMV don't like going to the DMV when they need their driver's license. And you have to have all of these things in order to get your ID, even if you're already in the system, sometimes you have to have these things. And these folks are again born in these chaotic lives, and they don't have their birth certificate, all that stuff. We've got a we have set up a system in Douglas County to where, if they've been booked in and and you you all need to get an ID that that the DMV here will now accept our paperwork showing their true identity. It's not like we're trying to get a fake ID so they can buy, you know, beer when they get out, but they'll accept our paperwork, because it's so hard sometimes, if you were born in New Jersey, you're just not going to have your stuff, you know. And so that's something too that I've just really felt like it was, was really cool that that we were able to set up the system, that you all were able to set up the system to get these people what they needed, in a roundabout way. I mean, it's still totally legal and legit, but it's without all the red tape and so. And the other thing is, too, is, like, we've how many we've had people where we've had to buy multiple IDs. They get arrested, come to jail, we get out, get them an ID, and they come back to jail three days later, and, like, I lost my ID, like, but we still do it, because eventually they're going to put their skin in the game and they're going to be successful, and that idea may be the key piece that does it for them. So sorry. I'm just talking at you about things that you already know about. So
Carrie Neis:I wanted to mention one thing. Back on peers, we talked about the ah, model being peer driven, Cardinal Housing Network. I think that's the direction that they're going, right we I think it was in 2022, we introduced our first peer into the jail. So we have three now that are re entry, full circle candidates that have started with the reentry. I
Jay Armbrister:don't think people know what you mean by full circle. I think you should probably explain that a little
Carrie Neis:further. So these individuals were incarcerated in Douglas County, yep,
Jay Armbrister:so they they lived, they were arrested and were living in our jail for at some point, yep,
Carrie Neis:engaged with reentry in whatever form or fashion that looked like and released, doing well, making good choices. And it has come full circle where they have now applied to become volunteers in the jail. They come in and teach alongside our case managers there. We've trained them in several different programs. So they teach back to the inmates that are in custody with our case managers, they speak the language. They speak the language
Jay Armbrister:you know, and it's been rare, but there are sheriffs who will be like So you're telling me, somebody who was in your jail as an inmate is now. You're now letting them back in to meet with other inmates, like you're cool with that. You don't think they're up to no good. I'm like absolutely is. Do you think that's what they want to do? Like they're to be nefarious to to try to smuggle in extra coffee or something? No, these people are coming in to give back to a system that helped them. And I am all for it. All for it. Now, something may happen down the road again. We are only dealing with with human beings. But knock on wood, this has been extremely successful for us, and
Carrie Neis:I don't know of another jail in Kansas
Jay Armbrister:that allows it. I don't either, no and, and we're not going to quit anytime soon, unless we absolutely have to. But I can't think of what that reason would be, so I just I thoroughly believe in it and the folks that have come back and we've built these relationships with not only is it great for the for the incarcerated individuals that are learning from them, it's really good for our staff, too, to see, to See the success stories, but also to learn from them, like they know what all the things that we don't know. When we sit in there and work in a jail that are going on that we know nothing about, they're very good about explaining like, oh, well, that is so and so is probably up to, you know, doing this, that, or the other, or suffering this, or having trouble with that. Just it's, it's such a new perspective that makes us better, as well as making the incarcerated folks. So I think I don't even know how long we've been talking, three days, roughly, I don't. So thank you so much for coming on. I'm not done with you, because I have, I have question for you. But so is there anything else you can think of before we get into the the dumb, right, random questions that you think we should know?
Carrie Neis:I think back to your question, where you said, is there anything that I would tell the community, or anything of that nature? I think one mis misunderstanding about when somebody comes to jail, that somehow that's magic, magic motivation to change. So just because somebody is arrested and they come to jail, we're here for them if they're ready to make a change. We're here for them to make that change. But just because someone's arrested and they come from, you know, come to jail doesn't mean they're ready to change anything in their lives? Yeah, no. And we're all human, and we're here when when they need us. So I think
Jay Armbrister:that's it. That's a problem. I mean, with a lot of systems, is that if I went to jail, I know how it would affect me, but I can't take my perspective and put it on somebody else. Be like you should be feeling the same way I would, or you should be scared straight, like I would be. That's a great point. I think we lose track of because not everybody, some, some people are wanting to come to jail. They need to get in, get some clothes, get some, get some, you know, some food in them, and then get back out, you know. And, you know, that's just part of the life they've lived. It's not it's not the same to everybody, for sure. So
Shelby Osborn:recently, as part of the re entry, I got to travel to Florida for a conference. And one of the things that like really stood out to me is so fun fact, whenever I write Wednesday, I pronounce it Wednesday, correct. So one of the things that was a reminder to me is community is common unity. Same thing like Wednes day you identify as your common unity to people and so like, when we're like, Oh, you just got to change your people, places and things, like, you're asking them to change their whole everything
Jay Armbrister:every and leave behind everything they've known because it's gotten it's failed them up to this point, but there's still love and loyalty in those in that place. So yeah, that's different. That's a tough one. So that's good. Good point common unity. Great. Now I'm going to mispronounce that in my head too, on February, every Wednesday in February. So So here's the question I love to ask everybody, because and I just met all the new jail staff this morning and made them do the same thing. So yeah, baby jailers. So three things, what was your first concert? What was your most recent concert, and what was your favorite concert? Now the answer one show can be all three, or you can say, I've never been to any but
Carrie Neis:I was afraid you were gonna ask this question. Oh, well, you can always make something up. You
Jay Armbrister:can lie. Oh, you don't go to shows. Do you
Carrie Neis:okay? So embarrassingly, I've been to, I think, six concerts in my entire life.
Jay Armbrister:Well, you're only 24 that's fine.
Carrie Neis:They were all the same person,
Jay Armbrister:okay, no, you're gonna George Street
Carrie Neis:close Garth Brooks. Oh, it's embarrassing,
Jay Armbrister:dude, the showman, I'll give him that, you know, and I. Was, I'm a product of the 90s. I was down with, with some, you know, the black and the blue, the shirts, the headset,
Carrie Neis:yeah, like six in my entire life, and they were all him.
Jay Armbrister:So when was the last one you went and saw? Because he hasn't been out for
Carrie Neis:a while. He's been here not too long ago, like five years ago, maybe, well, yeah, I'm not a concert person. Well, I grew
Jay Armbrister:up, you can't go to see the same guy six times and say, I'm not a concert person.
Carrie Neis:They were all like, right together. I grew up in a auto repair shop, 80s, classic rock. Oh yeah. I don't know any of the bands, but I could probably sing everything, yeah,
Jay Armbrister:oh, yeah. That's, well, I grew up in a house where we played oldies all the time, 50s, 60s and some 70s, and I can sing every one of those songs. But I couldn't tell you, you know Martha vandella and the Reeves, or whatever it is, but Martha Reese and the bandel is, but yeah, okay, all right, I'll let you off the hook. I mean, so terrible. It could
Carrie Neis:have wish I was more interesting, but I'm
Jay Armbrister:not. I've heard worse answers.
Shelby Osborn:I grew up in the 90s household listening to 90s country.
Jay Armbrister:Oh, yeah, speaking of Garth Brooks,
Shelby Osborn:yes. So my first concert, I think, was probably Shania Twain. Oh,
Jay Armbrister:well, that's, yeah, that's the staying power of that song. It's like it's taken on multiple generations of life. We're
Carrie Neis:gonna need to put some Shania on
Shelby Osborn:I one of my favorite concerts was probably Kenny Chesney At Arrowhead right before my dad passed away. That was like one of the things that he wanted to do with my brother and I see Kenny Chesney. Kenny Chesney, Yep, that was his favorite. Like I said, grew up on 90s, sure, sure. And so it was just a nice atmosphere. And I thought you were going
Jay Armbrister:through no scratching my back. I got bit by a mosquito last night
Shelby Osborn:in my most recent one. I went to Morgan Wallen, and I can't even think of who he put along with At Arrowhead last
Jay Armbrister:year. So arrowhead shows, yeah, there you go, because I tried to convince her to go, but Garth wasn't going to be there, so
Carrie Neis:I'm out. Yeah, we can edit out there.
Jay Armbrister:Absolutely not.
Shelby Osborn:Arrowhead is a nice, it's a fun.
Jay Armbrister:I've always just found that it's just too many people. It's just so many people and and like nine of them are sober, and I haven't, and I haven't seen those nine either, so, but no, it's my wife is not a huge concert goer. She'll go with me, but the only shows that she's been to that she like set up was, I think four or five times she's seen George Strait and and once to see Garth Brooks, okay, but, yeah, but that was in 1996 so, okay, well, thank you so much for being on. Thank you so much for opening the doors to what you do. I'm sure it's just, there's the job that you do is cannot be captured in a job summary, or somebody just talking about it, or even applying for the job. We can't tell you all the things you're going to have to do, but I know that that we're deeply grateful that for the work you do. But it's, it's a little bit like seat belts. People will say, Well, how many lives have seat belts saved? Well, we don't know, because those people did not pass away, so we cannot calculate it. People will say, Well, how much money have you saved the county? I have no idea you all, but I can tell you is that you have saved multiple days incarcerated, that when you multiply that by $238 a day, we are way ahead in money that we did not have to spend because of the work that you do. And so I'm going to be first in line to thank you for the work you do, but whether the community says it or not, they are thankful for the work you do, and I know that the county commission and the County Administrator are extremely proud of the work you do. And I tell anybody who will listen about our re entry program, because I think it should be in every jail, in every place in every country, but they just aren't able to get to that point. But I sure am glad that we are so thank you so much for being on, and that takes care of this one. We'll see everybody, all nine of our listeners, back next week for another installment. I've got a couple. We've got a couple up our sleeve that I'm really looking forward to. I think I may have a former Sheriff signed on to come in and talk through some history, but we'll we'll have to wait and see if that works out. So until next time, thank you so much. I'm Sheriff Jay armbroster, thanks. Applause.
